200kw out of a black top

tim_blair · Post by **tim_blair** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:52 pm

hi i have a black top 4age
in a ae111 levin
and im looking to get 150-200 kw
can anyone give me maybe a list of mods/parts that i will need to achieve this

it currently has a 2.25-2.5 stainless mandrel exhaust from the firewall back
a 3 inch intake with large front mount
im installing an electric power steering pump from an mr2

i have made my own super charger/centrifical blower (paxton stlye)
which i am going to use however if this does not work (it blows up or does not boost enough) im thinking about going to a t3/t4

any advice would be great

Emperor · Post by **Emperor** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:33 pm

a decent sized turbo haha.... t3/t4 should do 200kw, but you will also need supporting mods.

Im guessing the front mount is for your charger?

OMG so shiny! · Post by **Dell'Orto** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:41 pm

You need decent conrods, and lower compression for a start. 11:1 plus boost and blacktop rods = very messy.

tim_blair · Post by **tim_blair** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:02 pm

yea i geussed that and am aware that the rods arnt the strongest
but thats more of a long term thing
there was i guy selling 1 on trademe that was running 6 psi with standed internals and standed fueling but had and aftermarket cpu which he had a shop tune for him and said it was running well
i figured i could go that far for a start

i kno that my old car 3sfe which i turboed could run 4 psi b4 a boost cut
thats actually a funny story but quite long

yes the frount mount is for the charger it can very eaisly b plumbed into a turbo tho

im not that keen on expencive after market parts so how does 4agze pistons and rods sound? or would they hit the valves as they are not cut 4 5 valve heads?

l1ttle_d3vil · Post by **l1ttle_d3vil** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:08 pm

i make 123.9kw atw on 5.3psi, with a full dyno tune.
you'll need alot more than 5psi to make 200kw.

and you'd better make the rods a priority, as I can't see them lasting "long term" ... :wink:

tim_blair · Post by **tim_blair** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:22 pm

ok so as a long term goal i will definatly get rods and pistons if i aim for 200kw

as a short term goal il aim for 150kw which is 204ish hp as they claim 165hp new which is 120ish kw i dont think an extra 30 is to much to ask for however that just my opinion

with sum basic fueling mods and a after market computer how much boost would be safe on standed internals? for any lenghty duration of time given that its used for city driving with the occasional redline 2-3 times every time i drive it

OMG so shiny! · Post by **Dell'Orto** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:24 am

It'd be that easy if they genuinely made 165, but not many standard blacktops will make 100kw at the wheels.
With 11:1 compression, it wont take much boost before it starts pinging.

Voyeur · Post by **Voyeur** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:27 am

You need to decide what you want for a start. for example
125 ish kw pistons, rings, gaskets, hone, computer, dyno. about 3-3.5k
150 isk kw as above but throw in gze rods, injectors, balancing 4-4.5k
200 kw as above but forged rods, head work, lots more maching and a lot more dollars.
My suggestion if you want 200kw then buy bazda's 7a bottom end throw a decent turbo and your 20v head on it.

Bazda · Post by **Bazda** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:35 pm

Yes buy my bottom end. So much torque!

xsspeed · Post by **xsspeed** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:56 pm

I would have thought that 200kW isn't too hard to get from a blacktop turbo provided you have the right supporting mods.

This is what I am aiming for with mine anyway, (provided I go turbo that is).

Chucking a Bazda bottom end and mods at the 20V will more likely net you 300 than 200kW I would say :lol:

rollaholic · Post by **rollaholic** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:33 pm

theres several cars on here making around the 200kw mark on 1600 bottom ends with relatively basic setups.

have a look through projects section, should be enlightening!

for what its worth there have been plenty of horror stories about blacktop rods failing, even on standard engines. if you are going to open the engine i wouldnt hesitate to replace them with earlier model rods, for the price its cheap peace of mind.

CAMB01 · Post by **CAMB01** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:34 pm

gasman's engine has factory 4agze rods and the higher compression pistons, with a standard unmodified blacktop 20v head. His was making 260kw at the wheels.

Bazda · Post by **Bazda** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:54 pm

yes the 1600 would be fine.
BUT

woulndt it be nice to just buy something setup with reliability and can make massive power with massive torque all ready to bolt in

deaf_rattle · Post by **deaf_rattle** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:16 pm

Bazda wrote:yes the 1600 would be fine.
BUT

woulndt it be nice to just buy something setup with reliability and can make massive power with massive torque all ready to bolt in

wise words from Barry here.

You could easily spend far more achieving much less.

Bling · Post by **Bling** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:50 pm

tim_blair wrote:with sum basic fueling mods and a after market computer how much boost would be safe on standed internals? for any lenghty duration of time given that its used for city driving with the occasional redline 2-3 times every time i drive it

F**k all would be a close figure to how much boost you could run. I'd place a bet at the TAB that it would blow up too if you like to thrash it with blacktop rods + boost :lol:

Do it once do it right or just don't do it.

escortman · Post by **escortman** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:04 am

for the price of larger rods and ze pistons ud be stupid not to do the bottom end now instead of having to get new block and head as well as rods and pistons in a couple months

there was a guy running stock bottom end on 5psi with link etc a lot of work just to run 5

OMG so shiny! · Post by **Dell'Orto** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:47 am

And that was a silvertop as well, which has much stronger internal than a blacktop.

Bazda · Post by **Bazda** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:49 am

remember he will most likely have to pay someone to do all this work.
If you pull down the engine you may as well do the bearings, get it re honed, get the rods honed out to suit arp bolts, buy all arp bolts etc new seals etc etc, your gona spend a few thousand easily for someone to do all this work. I would say more than $3k. And what do you get, still a pretty much stock ze bottom end

.

Crucible · Post by **Crucible** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:01 pm

There was a guy on here from palmy with a black ae101 Trueno, standard blacktop, TD05 and link, it made around 136kw atw on around 6 psi, he was doing mid 14s at masterton.

molex · Post by **molex** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:12 pm

I think you guys are over thinking this a bit, 200kw is entirely doable on a decent gze bottom end with a suitable turbo and importantly fueling sorted with a good ecu/tune.

qikstarlie aka kpr was running ~215kw atw in an interally standard 5efhe with 4efte pistons. A 4agze has significantly chunkier rods and better pistons by all accounts, plus more displacement to boot. Decent intake and exhaust + good tune = success