proof of power increace over factory for WOF?

ChaosAD · Post by **ChaosAD** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:39 pm

I have changed the cylinder head, intake and exhaust from the standard bluertop parts to silvertop.

My wof issuer wants to see proof that this has not caused a power increase of over 20%.

Whats the best way to prove this short of doing before/after dyno runs?

KwS · Post by **KwS** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:54 pm

when i got asked for one in my subaru (went from TT GTB engine to single turbo STI engine, which are both the same rated power output), i got one of the guys at the subaru agent down here to write a letter for me that said they both had the same power output.

The silvertop makes 40ish more hp than the bluetop, doesnt it? Thats over 20% more...

MR2BOY23 · Post by **MR2BOY23** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:54 pm

It probably has increased that much

20% being only a 30hp jump

Heylin · Post by **Heylin** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:57 pm

Jesus, ive been running 33% increase now for a year, 2 WOFs and nothing has been asked for.

MR2BOY23 · Post by **MR2BOY23** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:02 pm

I thought that 20% only applied if your swapping the engine? not modifying it

Mr.Phreak · Post by **Mr.Phreak** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:11 pm

You thought wrong

l1ttle_d3vil · Post by **l1ttle_d3vil** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:48 pm

yeah, technically you need a cert for pod filters/intake systems/exhaust systems etc, if the mods increase the power over the 20%, even if they are bolt on.

but your wof guy sounds a bit anal?

have you asked him what will be sufficient proof for him? it would vary from person to person.

if you can't prove it i guess you'd have to pay for the mods to be certified so it's all legal. i'd rather just find another wof garage :wink:

1I1 · Post by **1I1** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:52 pm

This is why you buy a 20v. You can mod away happily knowing that this won't be a problem :lol:

It's like the exhaust law - unless you can prove otherwise you're pretty much in the wrong

Bling · Post by **Bling** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:55 pm

l1ttle_d3vil wrote: i'd rather just find another wof garage

I'd do this a few times before I did anything else :lol:

neo · Post by **neo** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:02 pm

pfft, use my dyno graphs

from two different silvertops, just crop off the bottom

ChaosAD · Post by **ChaosAD** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:32 pm

If I drop in a complete silvertop it needs a cert as it makes more power than the stock bluetop.

Or I can 'modify' my bluetop (swap cyl head, intake, exhaust, block, crank, rods, etc etc form a silvertop) up to a 20% power increase before needing a cert. But I need to prove it doesnt make more than 20% over factory.

I letter from toyota wouldnt help as they think a silvertop makes 165Hp.

Here are the wof rules for engines http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/certifiers/virm-in-service/general-13-v3.pdf

He really just want something in writing to cover his arse should he get audited or whatever.

I dont mind getting a cert, but not just yet as I still want to get a half cage, bigger brakes etc first.

deaf_rattle · Post by **deaf_rattle** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:09 pm

you need a cert because you have changed the cylinder head. Its in the rules somewhere.
I never worried about it as i was passing wofs with the 20v conversion. But in saying that, i was uninsured. Im sure i wouldve been wasting my money if i had insurance for it, as they wouldve gone over the car in the case of an incident.

cat007 · Post by **cat007** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:44 pm

I have a cert for the GTE engine verses the original N/A

And now I'm 240% over the car's factory engine

hmmmmm

lol

B1NZ · Post by **B1NZ** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:07 pm

just do a dyno run and then show him toyotas factory power figures, will 100% surely be lower than the quoted factory power figure :lol:

Lloyd · Post by **Lloyd** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:33 pm

deaf_rattle wrote:you need a cert because you have changed the cylinder head. Its in the rules somewhere.

No you don't, and no its not

ChaosAD · Post by **ChaosAD** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:50 pm

deaf_rattle wrote:you need a cert because you have changed the cylinder head. Its in the rules somewhere.
I never worried about it as i was passing wofs with the 20v conversion. But in saying that, i was uninsured. Im sure i wouldve been wasting my money if i had insurance for it, as they wouldve gone over the car in the case of an incident.

Check table 13-1-1 in the link I posted.
when modifying an engine a cert is needed if you have a power increace of over 20% from stock, fitting a turbo or supercharger, substituting a turbo or wastegate or re-chipping the ecu on turbo cars.

Looks like ill just have to do a power run on a dyno, not that it will really tell him $&#$% as its measured at the wheels with all the ancillary's fitted. If its too high ill just have to retard the timing until it drops enough or adjust one of the constants on the dyno.

Toyota quote 88kw at the flywheel for the bluetop from memory, i'm expecting the silvertop will make more than that at the wheels.

stalker · Post by **stalker** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:29 pm

ChaosAD wrote:Toyota quote 88kw at the flywheel for the bluetop from memory, i'm expecting the silvertop will make more than that at the wheels.

My silvertop made 85Kw atw.....and thats after trumpets, link and exhaust
:lol:

ChaosAD · Post by **ChaosAD** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:49 pm

stalker wrote:
ChaosAD wrote:Toyota quote 88kw at the flywheel for the bluetop from memory, i'm expecting the silvertop will make more than that at the wheels.

My silvertop made 85Kw atw.....and thats after trumpets, link and exhaust

Yea? shouldn't an average one make about 90kwatw?

stalker · Post by **stalker** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:59 pm

Thats what I thought also...but as was pointed out to me in my project section posts, Toyota grossly over quoted the power outputs of all their engines...plus the loss via the drivetrain and gearbox also kills it.

So take the quoted bluetop figures and a dyno of your engine...and at a guess, you will be fine. *just dont tell the wof guy about the overquoted power figures from Toyota*

Loudtoy · Post by **Loudtoy** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:12 pm

ChaosAD wrote:
stalker wrote:
ChaosAD wrote:Toyota quote 88kw at the flywheel for the bluetop from memory, i'm expecting the silvertop will make more than that at the wheels.

My silvertop made 85Kw atw.....and thats after trumpets, link and exhaust

Yea? shouldn't an average one make about 90kwatw?

You find that bugger all of them make 80kw let alone 90 atw.
I had a freak one that made 94(see sig) with exhaust, intake and some fluffing around with the afm but i never saw another silvertop putting out more than 84 with only these things done to it so you'l probably be safe with that.

Another thought is if you get the factory quoted figures from toyota for the blue top and then dyno the current setup he'l probably want to be there or something as why would oyu want to swap to a motor with less power??