oil pump for rwd 3sgte. altezza 3s vs caldina 3s

[gt4dude]

I'm building a rwd caldina 3sgte with altezza sump and j160 box.

I've seen the two oil pumps side by side and the pickup is hole wider and the bulge in the casing for the pump is slightly bigger. Would the altezza pump be a good upgrade for me or is it better to keep using a turbo pump. Is st205 even higher volume? From the looks on my oil pressure gauge in my st205 it's not the highest of oil pressures I've seen in cars..

[KinLoud]

The altezza pump is bigger volume to handle extra demand from the dual VVT
Using it with a turbo engine means that more oil will go through the bypass and back into the sump
So no real benefit
Look at the appropriate car/engine manual to check oil pressure limits at various rpm to check if your engine is healthy...
Even better, check main bearing clearances with plastigage - if bearings are worn then oil pressure will be lower
Will engine be mounted factory east west?
Or you going for north south, engine mounted upright?
Altezza head has big oil drainback to avoid head filling with oil and starving the oil pickup
This causes the classic 3s destruction

[gt4dude]

I have st215 3sgte engine, and sxe10 sump and j160 box going into a KP61. We are currently exploring putting in an external oil drain at the back of the head (N/S) on the exhaust side..

[Scottie]

The gen 3 GTE pump is slightly bigger in diameter (58 vs 60mm) but smaller in height (14 vs 16mm) compared gen 4 GTE. The Gen 3 also has 25 teeth on the gear so works harder than the gen 4 (27 teeth). I'm not sure what gear the blacktop has, I have a blacktop pump next to me, can measure if ya need.

The gears are swapable. I think 3sfe's use the 25 gear drive pully if an ST205 is unavailable.(probably anything from the gen 3 version of the s series block uses the 25 gear ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[gt4dude]

What are you measuring? I'm going off the pickup diameter to see which is the highest flowing pump. If it's st205 then ill buy one of those. I can also look at increasing my sump capacity

[Scottie]

The internal pump rotor and gear. Thats what will determine flow. I think the gen 3 and 4 pick ups are the same. Not sure about the blacktop.

Caldina with a 25gear drive pully would flow a little more than a ST205. Blacktop is larger still as KinLoud has mentioned.

[Scottie]

when talking about teeth, I'm talking about the cambelt driven gear. To clarify. Not the gears inside the pump which are a 4/5 gear cresent.
Realised that might not have been very clear.

[KinLoud]

I ran an accusump ( http://www.accusump.com ) with my gen3 3sge in my AA63 (rwd) Carina racecar to get around the n/s upright oil problem
I feel that it helped keep my engine safe when a number of friends killed their 3sges

[Scottie]

I should have mentioned that the st205 pump is not directly compatible with the gen 4 sumps.

[Celica RA45]

black top beams is the biggest in capicity in pump and gears .also beams head gasket has in built oil restrictor to flow less oil to the head ,drain back is ok .works well when you dry sump it thou with a 4stage pump
motors are good untill you hit 1.8 g through the corners even with the steel pan modified

[gt4dude]

Dry sump setups are 10k, that's out of the question for me.

So should I choose blacktop pump, pickup and head gasket, or

St205 pump and modified pickup


In any instance ill increase my capacity to around 5 liters and add new drains to the exhaust side.

Should I make use of the FWD/AWD dipstick hole for my return? Or block it up and add a return in the oil pan?

[Celica RA45]

use the altezza sump and pan and oil pick up use the black top oil pump ,just have a look at the head to see which way the oil goes
i sell dry sump pump, pan mandrels pulleys and brackets and belt for 2900 aussie plus 100 for postage gives you rwd pan to suit crank shaft angle sensor 4 stage oil pump block bracket with bolts mandrel with pulley ,belt pulley for pump spacers with bolts and cam belt idler
all you need after that is oil tank about 600 and the braided hose only on suction side and fittings.now where near 10 grand

[gt4dude]

Is the blacktop head gasket a direct fit which is the best to get? I need one anyways since the head is apart from the block

[gt4dude]

While we're at it, which is the best water pump? I've heard different stories, never compared

[Celica RA45]

st 205 is the same water pump as the beams
head gasket altezza is 30thou thick or .8of a mm so comp might go up on the turbo motor and are 3 metal layer
you would be better to get the red top beams h/gasket for fwd , if running it in rwd go the altezza gasket

[Grrrrrrr!]

st 205 is the same water pump as the beams

Not according to toyodiy. st205 water pump is the one with the resin impeller instead of the pressed stainless one like every other gen3+ 3sgte.



st205 pump right, every other 3s pump left.

[Celica RA45]

you could well be right there ,was talking about the out side ,will look at my new 1s

[gt4dude]

So from the sounds of it, I should probably go st205 on everything with a modified pickup and strainer to suit the altezza sump. Again for clarification it's st215w motor, sxe10 sump and gearbox into a kp61.

We will also add an external oil drain in the corner of the head by exhaust port #4 and perhaps send it back down the old 4WD dipstick hole

[Grrrrrrr!]

You'll have no crank position sensor if you do that. Makes it kinda hard to run the motor...

[Celica RA45]

if going into the kp 61 starlet with steel pan how far off the road will the pan be 50mm
if using the altezza pan use the altezza oil pick up .on oil drain backs as in gen 2/3
i use to drill between no 2 and 3 exhaust right near the valve springs ,you will see the oil ledge where the oil runs and take it from there ,just make sure you dont hit the water jacket of the head
still sounds like you would be better off going dry sump as pan is only 85mm deep from block and it will cost you under 5 grand aussie with lines and tank