Best 4AGE for converting to turbo?

[I SL1DE]

It seems many people have got different opinions on this so what (in your opinion) is the best 4AGE for running a lowish boost setup (no more than 12-14 psi) in RWD format, AND WHY?

Options:
Standard big port
Small port with reversed intake manifold
Small port with reversed intake manifold and GZE pistons
Early model 4AGZE
Late model 4AGZE
Silvertop 20v with GZE pistons
Something else that i havent listed

I know this is a hard post to answer but i know there are a lot of you guys out there who have gone through this before. Im going to be running a megasquirt ecu with a wasted spark system so having to bash firewalls isnt an issue. Availability (and price) is another big factor that I'm having to take into consideration.

Once again thanks for your advice,
Cam

[Lloyd]

Whatever you can get your hands on. The late model 4AGZEs were MAP sensored and had boost cut at 14ish psi where as the early ones were AFM jobs and didn't have a cut (but dont try going too high on those). The majority of the 4AGEs are the same as the 4AGZEs with the difference being the GZE had forged pistons. Blacktops have the weaker conrods, but the rest should all use the same rods.

If you can find a 4AGZE then go for it and find the manifold to fit. Otherwise find yourself some forged pistons and chuck them into whatever else you find (go for the 7 rib block as they're stronger than the 3). Bluetop inlet is what you want for RWD turbo I think, or you can get a 100kW redtop one modify it (thats what I ended up doing).

What are you planning on using the car for exactly? Certain setups will be horrible down low and some will be good all round. Depends on what turbo you're planning on also

[Twolitre]

Red top T-VIS

[I SL1DE]

I plan on using the car as a road/tarmac race car primarily but i definately dont want it to be only good up top. An all round power band is what i am after so i will be using a average size turbo (t25, td04 or t28). I would be happy with full boost starting around 4000 - 4500rpm.

Twolitre: the main point of this post was to clarify WHY a certain setup should be used not just state what the 'best' type is. Why do you suggest using a red top T-VIS?

[Lloyd]

The early 4AGZEs were 8.0:1 CR with the later MAP sensored ones running 8.9:1. Still kinda crappy off boost. With a T3 on a late model one I'm getting boost starting (in say 3rd or 4th) starting to come on at 2,500 and being at about 12psi by 3,500. In 1st and second it takes a bit of revs to get boost out of it because it takes a while to spool but its a kick in the arse when it comes on.

If I was you I'd find a late 4AGZE and make your own inlet manifold for it and get some sort of decent boost control (the ECU can cover that?) and maybe go from there. T25 might be a bit small though

[Twolitre]

Yeah sorry dude I will explain,
Red top T-VIS engines are easy to find, are cheap comapred with 20 valves & 4agze's and in rwd format you can at least bolt on a blue top intake manifold. They share the same crank and conrods as early 4agze's
Guys like Jinx have proven they respond well to boost. Although they have a relatively high compression ratio to turbo (9.4:1) they should be reliable with good intercooling and fueling. the extra compression ratio will give better torque and more off boost response and if you want to rebuild down the line you can insert a set of 4agze pistons and you will essentially have a 4agze. Having said that if you have the $$ it might be worth trying to find an AE101 4agze considering they have the piston oil squirters which might be good for longevity if you plan to race it.

[I SL1DE]

T25 might be a bit small though

I was talking to mike86ze and he is using a t25 and said that a t28 may be to laggy but it sounds like you are getting great response from your t3 setup. I would prefer to use a bigger turbo if i can, the more power the better! There are other things like bigger injectors that I would also have to buy if i was to go with a non-ZE engine of some type.

It seems that there isnt an easy answer to this question. I guess it'll just come down to what i can find for the right money. On that note if anyones got a AE101 4AGZE kicking around PM me as this seems the best option aside from cost.

[Lloyd]

Depends how much you're looking at spending. I'm still on standard injectors and its still running rich at a constant 12psi boost. If you're wanting much more boost over 12-14 then you'll be looking for new injectors. 440cc jobs from a GTiR or something like that seem to be the go.

[vvega]

T25 might be a bit small though

I was talking to mike86ze and he is using a t25 and said that a t28 may be to laggy but it sounds like you are getting great response from your t3 setup. I would prefer to use a bigger turbo if i can, the more power the better! There are other things like bigger injectors that I would also have to buy if i was to go with a non-ZE engine of some type.

It seems that there isnt an easy answer to this question. I guess it'll just come down to what i can find for the right money. On that note if anyones got a AE101 4AGZE kicking around PM me as this seems the best option aside from cost.

it is very simple and is based intirely on what you have to spend
that will directly relate to what you do

nuber one
you wanna run in rwd setup ??
so that means basically no 20v setup
why
cause less you wannan beat the firewall or want to make a custom water outlet for the rear of the head its not happening

number 2
do you have all the rwd fittings for a 16v setup???
if no then cost will rise greatly

if yes then 16v is the way for you

next
what do you plan to do with the car ??
race or road or drag
also whats ya buget ???

you cant ask advice if you arnt suppliung the nessary details

and 3rdly
there is so much info around bout this very thing that would answer all thses questions
if you cant be bothered looking then i cant be bothered helping

and iof you say you cant find any you are ful of shit

and lastly givin all the info on the net about this conversion
if you still cant make sence of it all
sell the car and give up
that would mean you dont have enough sence to do a conversion anyways

just my thoughts

v

[I SL1DE]

ok, vvega it sounds like you're a grumpy old man. Thanks for the lecture but if you dont like what i am asking then either dont post at all or ask more questions, spare everyone the angry BS. Im a beginner, im not trying to piss anyone off and no im not too lazy to read up or do a search, i spend more time researching than what i do actual work on the car.

To reply to your questions;
1. fabricating is not an issue for me, i have access to a lathe and a mill plus welder so 20v is definately not out of the question.

2. no i dont have all of the fittings that i need, i have a bare ae85 shell wgich had a 3a so i have engine mounts but thats about it. Any bracketry that is too expensive i can once again fabricate. There is no power steering or AC so i only need to spin the water pump and an atlernator, nothing major really. Am i missing anything here?

As stated above the car is going to be a entry to the motorsport scene for me. I plan to set it up as a tarmac car that is road registered. It will have a full cage and weight will be kept to a minimum. It will be a road/race car. drag is not that much of a concern for me. As for budget i would like to have an engine fully running with turbo, manifolds, exhaust, etc for 2-3k max. I will perorm as much of the work as possible to keep costs to a minimum.

Im not an idiot and i am definately not lacking in common sense, thanks for the checkup. As i said before if you dont like my post just dont reply or if you want help the new guy out, be constructive rather than giving everyone a hard time.

Maybe now you have a better idea of what i am trying to achieve

Thanks,
Cam.

[matt dunn]

ok, seems like you want a simple answer.

For cost and availability reasons, and for performance against work done,

I would reccomend

Small port with reversed intake manifold and GZE pistons

Matt

[suberimakuri]

if you're racing, then off boost doesn't matter.

low boost, rwd..... bluetop turbo is easiest.. just get some fuel in there.

[vvega]

. Im a beginner, im not trying to piss anyone off and no im not too lazy to read up or do a search, i spend more time researching than what i do actual work on the car.

.

if you had of serched or recherched you wouldnt be asking theses questions
so that hold no water

fact is you may have access to equipment dosent mean you know what your making or why your making it

if you could
yet again you wouldnt be here asking these questions

and you think im a grumpy old man ???
maybe its all the young cockheads here asking retard questions with expection's of s a miracle have to attually do nothing and it will do itself

just go get a 101 ze motor stick t28 on it and go racing
its not that hard to do.......
if ya cant do that
go pay a engine shop to build you one


v

[matt dunn]

if you're racing, then off boost doesn't matter.

I disagree with that, there is such a thing as 1/2 throttle response

[suberimakuri]

racing and half throttle. i would hope you're on boost in a turbo car. Maybe you're in the wrong gear

Don't even try and tell me about compression and boost.
I ran a redtop (10.3:1) turbo (t3/4 1 bar) for 6 months, something which majority on internet will say will blow up.
That motor then went back into a mates car after d1 round and he went and dynoed it at 90kW at the wheels. 95kW would have been achievable without SAFC and with filter on.
Motor obviously still alive.

[matt dunn]

racing and half throttle. i would hope you're on boost in a turbo car. Maybe you're in the wrong gear

Maybe your not familar with tracks that have corners in them??

You know, the bits that aren't straight,
or maybe your car is so slow that you can go full throttle round the corners,
or maybe your not a good enough driver to apply power through the corner?

[vvega]

racing and half throttle. i would hope you're on boost in a turbo car. Maybe you're in the wrong gear

Don't even try and tell me about compression and boost.
I ran a redtop (10.3:1) turbo (t3/4 1 bar) for 6 months, something which majority on internet will say will blow up.
That motor then went back into a mates car after d1 round and he went and dynoed it at 90kW at the wheels. 95kW would have been achievable without SAFC and with filter on.
Motor obviously still alive.

im also running a bluetop trd gasketed to 10:1 with a s/c bolted on and have no problems aside from my tunning

its a old school belief that to have a turbo you need low compression
fact is with more compression you can run a bigger turbo as the spool resposne will improve
this is now know fact with plenty of high compression turbo's out there

to make it eazy to understand

its all about the tune
if its tuned right you wont get det issues nor will you melt pistons
and this is what kills pistons not the boost

sometimes old is not the best way......


v

[suberimakuri]

join the DR-X gang.

detonation and lack of fuel will blow up motor. vvega is right.

[matt dunn]

join the DR-X gang.

detonation and lack of fuel will blow up motor. vvega is right.

Yes detonation and lack of fuel will blow up motor.
Almost any combo can be used with the right tuning.
Where did i say i wouldn't??

I was just saying that I believe off boost response has it's place on a race track.

Matt

[suberimakuri]

if you can only run 3lbs boost round a corner before car is unsettled... then you'll only run 3lbs.
don't confuse throttle response with lag.

obviously, with a turbo car you're going to have "lag".
But.. when racing, you should always be in the right rpm range, where you can modulate the power required with throttle.

give it a break.