kelford cams

[phat_levin]

if i was to get my cams reground by kelford, wat gains would i expect to get? and would vvt still work? my car is ae101 trueno 20v silver top......

[4000GT]

if i was to get my cams reground by kelford, wat gains would i expect to get? and would vvt still work? my car is ae101 trueno 20v silver top......

Those guys are monkeys. Try getting some Toda or similar cams, proven track you know what you are getting. I looked into cams with them before I got the Toda ones, they had NO clude about the differences between a silver and black top and couldnt tell me even ball park what performance I would likely expect etc...

[solitaire]

if i was to get my cams reground by kelford, wat gains would i expect to get? and would vvt still work? my car is ae101 trueno 20v silver top......

Those guys are monkeys. Try getting some Toda or similar cams, proven track you know what you are getting. I looked into cams with them before I got the Toda ones, they had NO clude about the differences between a silver and black top and couldnt tell me even ball park what performance I would likely expect etc...

Has anyone else had any experience with these guys? they seemed relatively knowledgable with 3s's but i dont know these guys from squat...

but yeah... big concern when they dont know a silver top from a black top...

[pc]

I got my bluetop cams re-ground by Kelfords and they seem to go alright. I couldn't find any useful info, (before and after dyno plots) for any cams, and you might find the same thing.
It's all a matter of how far you want to go as well. but I am assuming you want to just bung in some different cams and retain everything else stock.

[RedMist]

if i was to get my cams reground by kelford, wat gains would i expect to get? and would vvt still work? my car is ae101 trueno 20v silver top......

Those guys are monkeys. Try getting some Toda or similar cams, proven track you know what you are getting. I looked into cams with them before I got the Toda ones, they had NO clude about the differences between a silver and black top and couldnt tell me even ball park what performance I would likely expect etc...

Where do you get your information from?

Kelfords most certainly do construct a good cam, and know quite a bit about the 4age. Kevin certainly knows the difference between the blacktop and the silvertop. There is a compeditor of mine with reasonably basic mods in a blacktop with Kelfords cams in it, supposedly running 191hp at the wheels (all I know is its bloody fast). I run 178hp in my 16 valve with a Kelford grind.
I run a full race grind as do all my compeditors, as such we never run VVT, however the Kamakazi grinds are designed to retain VVT in either blacktop or silvertop form.
You generally wont get gains throughout the power curve with different cams, however you will take some of the low and mid range power and throw it high. You may wish to consult Kelfords in regards to the best grind for your application.

[TRD Man]

I'd have no hestitation recommending Kelfords.
In the 70's their reground cams were regarded as being more accurate than the originals they were copying.
I've used them on many occasions and would consider them to be the pick of NZ cam grinders.

Remember - Sometimes the quality of the advice you receive is directly relative to the quality of the information you provide.

[RedMist]

if i was to get my cams reground by kelford, wat gains would i expect to get? and would vvt still work? my car is ae101 trueno 20v silver top......

Those guys are monkeys. Try getting some Toda or similar cams, proven track you know what you are getting. I looked into cams with them before I got the Toda ones, they had NO clude about the differences between a silver and black top and couldnt tell me even ball park what performance I would likely expect etc...

[/quote="UK_Engine_builder"]

Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 730
Toda cams are so agressive they munch valve train assemblies and lead to horrible 5th order harmonics and valve foat, meaning they have to supply horribly high poundage springs.

Piston designs are well.........well i just wouldnt.

ITB's are....poo.

And they are so expensive.

Any engine running all toda stuff is never anywhere up there in the power stakes.

[/quote]

[4000GT]

if i was to get my cams reground by kelford, wat gains would i expect to get? and would vvt still work? my car is ae101 trueno 20v silver top......

Those guys are monkeys. Try getting some Toda or similar cams, proven track you know what you are getting. I looked into cams with them before I got the Toda ones, they had NO clude about the differences between a silver and black top and couldnt tell me even ball park what performance I would likely expect etc...

[/quote="UK_Engine_builder"]

Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 730
Toda cams are so agressive they munch valve train assemblies and lead to horrible 5th order harmonics and valve foat, meaning they have to supply horribly high poundage springs.

Piston designs are well.........well i just wouldnt.

ITB's are....poo.

And they are so expensive.

Any engine running all toda stuff is never anywhere up there in the power stakes.

[/quote]


Toda does about 20 different cam designs, so I think I will leave the generalisations of the internet in the category where they deserve to be.

As to where I got the info from about Kelfords, well I went in there and talked to a guy about them. Was it Kevin? No. Was it someone who should know? Yes.

[4000GT]

I'd have no hestitation recommending Kelfords.
In the 70's their reground cams were regarded as being more accurate than the originals they were copying.
I've used them on many occasions and would consider them to be the pick of NZ cam grinders.

Remember - Sometimes the quality of the advice you receive is directly relative to the quality of the information you provide.

Very true, I wonder if the supplier of information on their new cam machine said to grind of so much metal in a first cut, Kev nearly broke it last month? lol

[atmosports]

IF I was to get a cam ground in NZ, that's an IF, Kelford's would be the only people I use. I could tell stories about every cam grinder in this part of the world, everyone has bad days & everyone makes stuff that breaks/doesn't work it's all part of developing a better end product. I've never really had any major problems with kelfords with regards to their grinding they've always supplied to me what i've asked for & it's normally been withing 1/2 a degree of what it should be(Note this was variance between 10 cams of the exact same grind on new blanks). The only real problem has been the odd material incompatibility problem which has generally been a hardness mismatch between cam & follower, which to be honest isn't really Kelford's problem. Is Toda, HKS etc any good, well sure anything I've ever had from them seems to work alright, I've got a b18c honda which toda reckon would make 265hp with the bits that's in it(mainly toda) & it made 261hp & if you leant on it I'd say you'd get the 265hp. Got to remember in some cases the Japanese have been playing with cams for some of these engines longer than we have. But at the end of the day I'd go with either with no regrets, it'd depend on how long the delays was for each & obviuosly cost. But I'll always pay a little more for a Kiwi made product that works just to help local companies to survive.

[4000GT]

Personally I dont have a problem with Kelfords (other than the recent experience and the fact they couldnt work a cam on a Euro car I had as they had no idea what they were doing, kept it 2 weeks and returned it as they received it), locally there is not a lot of choice. Thats life. But I would rather a genuine Toyota billet used as the basis for the cam (like the Toda ones I got) instead of a rewelded one like Kelford would supply in this instance.

[RedMist]

Personally I dont have a problem with Kelfords (other than the recent experience and the fact they couldnt work a cam on a Euro car I had as they had no idea what they were doing, kept it 2 weeks and returned it as they received it), locally there is not a lot of choice. Thats life. But I would rather a genuine Toyota billet used as the basis for the cam (like the Toda ones I got) instead of a rewelded one like Kelford would supply in this instance.

Toda don't use "genuine Toyota billet". They claim to manufacture the billets in house.

Kelfords do supply Billet cams, weld built up or reduced base circle regrinds for the 4age.

In regards to your euro issue, it does sound a little off as my 4age cam is an Alfa grind. I would presume Kelfords could lay any grind on any cam if they so wished and the lobe allowed. I would say there would be other extenuating circumstances to this issue, perhaps cam hardness? I gather you supplied them with flow figures and an application?

[RedMist]

In regards to your own cam selection I gather the 288 9mm lift cam is your intake? IE 14111-101-032

[4000GT]

Personally I dont have a problem with Kelfords (other than the recent experience and the fact they couldnt work a cam on a Euro car I had as they had no idea what they were doing, kept it 2 weeks and returned it as they received it), locally there is not a lot of choice. Thats life. But I would rather a genuine Toyota billet used as the basis for the cam (like the Toda ones I got) instead of a rewelded one like Kelford would supply in this instance.

Toda don't use "genuine Toyota billet". They claim to manufacture the billets in house.

Kelfords do supply Billet cams, weld built up or reduced base circle regrinds for the 4age.

In regards to your euro issue, it does sound a little off as my 4age cam is an Alfa grind. I would presume Kelfords could lay any grind on any cam if they so wished and the lobe allowed. I would say there would be other extenuating circumstances to this issue, perhaps cam hardness? I gather you supplied them with flow figures and an application?

They had the cam off my Porsche, and had no clue what to do with it even after I gave them specs, they couldnt even offer a stock regrind. It doesnt matter if it sounds off, thats the reality of it though it was 2 years ago.

[4000GT]

http://www.club4ag.com/faq%20and%20tech ... _story.htm

"Toda is the oldest supplier of 4AG racing cams in Japan and currently uses Toyota factory blanks as a basis for their billets"

Thats where I got the info from about the Toda cams being factory toyota blanks... is that guy wrong or did I misinterpret what he is saying?

[Mr Revhead]

its club4ag so yeah beleive at your peril

[4000GT]

its club4ag so yeah beleive at your peril

I see, well, that goes for the internet generally...

[RedMist]

You still havent answered my question in regards to your cams.

IE

"Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:27 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In regards to your own cam selection I gather the 288 9mm lift cam is your intake? IE 14111-101-032
"

[4000GT]

You still havent answered my question in regards to your cams.

IE

"Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:27 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In regards to your own cam selection I gather the 288 9mm lift cam is your intake? IE 14111-101-032
"

Yes.

[4000GT]

RedMist, what work has Kelford done for you on your car? How did you find them at that time when developing the products for your car? Who did you work with?