tuning ignition without a dyno

[ChaosAD]

Hey, Ive got a v3 msII megasquirt ecu running a 4age engine.
Its controlling fuel and ignition and the fuel has been tuned with a wideband when I had the standard ecu doing ignition.
Before I take it to the dyno I need to make a base ignition map so I can drive it there.
Is there any way of doing a safe conservative ignition tune on the road?

[strx7]

if its got no ignition map whatsoever in it, go for 6 degrees BTDC at idle (1000rpm and below) for the 1500rpm range go for 8 degreed, 12 degrees at 2000rpm and 18 degrees at 2500 rpm, 20 degrees at 3000rpm, that will get to you a dyno. borrow or buy a knock link if you want to TUNE it on the road.

[matt dunn]

I'd agree with that too.

Maybe a little too conservative for a non-turbo,
but if you are going to get the advance tuned on a dyno,
those numbers will be fine.

[Calvin]

i hope you arent going to far.. its a pig to drive even just slightly out

[matt dunn]

i hope you arent going to far.. its a pig to drive even just slightly out

Will drive fine,
will just not make all the power it could.

[Calvin]

i hope you arent going to far.. its a pig to drive even just slightly out

Will drive fine,
will just not make all the power it could.

Yeah.. was implying its not gonna be a smooth ride. My GTZ like that at the moment.. Wont need to give it gas when taking off though

[ChaosAD]

Thanks, ill give it a try.
oh, and the compression is 11:1 so it needs to be very conservative on 96 octane.
I might need to knock a few degrees off those suggested settings I guess.

Its a silvertop block, so the silvertop knock sensor should fit no worries.
Can I wire it straight to the knocklink? and can you fully tune with a knocklink? or is it just a guide?

[strx7]

yip that will work fine with a knock link i've been using 3SGTE/3SGE/JZ etc ones on my knock link

[gepsk8]

where u get knock link from?

[strx7]

Link Engine Management systems in Christchurch, or any local LINK supplier ie: performance workshop. they are around $160 + gst from memory

[ChaosAD]

can the knocklink share the stock sensor with the standard ecu?

[QikStarlie]

stock sensors are crap, bosch donut type is what you need

[ChaosAD]

If I replace the stock sensor with a bosch donut one can I share it with the stock ecu? can the stock ecu use a bosch one?

Dont really want to drill/tap a new hole for a second sensor

[QikStarlie]

i dout the stock ecu will like the bosch sensor. they dont all give the same output. plus diffrent thread. id leave stock in place and run a second one.

we are talking 4age here i take it? theres plenty of other places on the block you can use. theres a few m8 holes drilled and taped ready to go under the intake manifold. well they are there on my smallport at least. thats where i have the sensor for my detset.

[matt dunn]

can the knocklink share the stock sensor with the standard ecu?

no.

[QikStarlie]

no.

thats the word i was looking for

[Adydas]

Why not just get it towed to the dyno? unless you live out ot state to it or are a real tight bum i couldnt see the harm in just spending the money.

Shop around its not like youve broke down i bet you can find a cheap job.. I chucked mine on the towie when it suited him ( ie he rang me the day he had a break down near me ) and beacuse he wasnt going out of his way for me ( he was for the breakdown ) he charged them the bulk and just tagged me on the bill and plonked it off a bit more up the road.

Dont know what state your cars in but mines been tuned as we speak and first starts have shown little things, powersteering leak and a small water leak.. Nothing big but might be if i were to be driving the car to the dyno..

[ChaosAD]

Just wanting to do a conservative tune and then tweek it up on the dyno.
Also want some way of checking for knock on the mitsi when playing with the boost etc.

Ok. so standard sensor or not, they can't be shared.
I thought the stock sensor was in the ideal place, or is anywhere near the top of the cylinder ok for a knock sensor?
Maybe near the middle so its away from the gearbox and pulley's

What are detset's like? or are they quite expensive?

[QikStarlie]

you'l hear knock anywhere on the block, ive tryed diffrent places and sounds the same thru detset. detset = knock sensor (mic) -> small audio amp -> headphones (insided earmuffs is best)

im not a fan of the knock link. but knock block (also made by link) would be good with the headphone output. listening for knock is the best way. long as you know what your listening for. looking at lights that flash up isnt.

[atmosports]

A knocklink is better than nothing, a knockblock with a headset is ok, but what you really what is a decent det headset like Link used to make, or like we make, which is probably similar to Qikstarlie's one. HKS etc make them as well, but everyone that has used one like ours throughs the HKS etc ones away. Anywhere on the block is ok & is most cases you can also bolt onto the head as well, it really depends on what your listening for as we use ours for stuff other than detonation. If you've got a good setup you should be able to hear the injectors, oil draining back into the sump etc once you know what your listening for.

Definately use a bosch style donut sensor, use sheilded cable with a new injector plug on it to connect to the sensor etc. Don't use the stock sensor & also I'd be hesitant to use any form of closed boost knock control as most of what I've seen on aftermarket ecu's ends up tuning a nice driving car into an overly rich pig with no ignition timing.