C-One cooling panel - tiny review

[postfach]

I could be way off track here, but I don't think that the point on the gauge that indicates "normal" operating temperature is the same point at which the thermostat opens....

A thermostat is a mechanical thing, it operates in a set temperature range, if the water passing the thermostat is cooler after installing the panel, then the thermostat will just open less... (it's not broken!)

Yes, the water will warm up more if the thermostat is closed, so yes, it will open up more again and the water will cool down again. The normal operating temperature is an EQUILIBRIUM. One side of the equation has been changed (the panel installed) THE EQUILIBRIUM MOVES!

The temperature gauge indicates the temperature of the water in the cooling system (OH MY GOD!!) not the operation of the thermostat.

In short, the panel is working, the thermostat is working. No problem.

[TRD Man]

If a thermostat is working corectly, how the hell can any amount of cooling lower the temp below the thermostat point. And whatever you said about the trd/tom thermostats has nothing to do with this convo at all...

It is not the job of this cooling panel to drop the temperature below that where the thermostat opens. Who has suggested that?

In fact it will only have an effect after the thermostat has begun to open. The mistake is to believe that the engine temperature remains at the point the thermostat begins to open.

The relevance of the TRD thermostat is, in fact their purpose. A TRD thermostat, which opens 10 degrees earlier than a standard item, is not there to remedy problems with overheating. It's purpose is to lower the operating temperature to achieve more power.

There is an optimum temperature for an engine to maintain to achieve best power. Others may be more expert in this but my understanding is that this is about 70 degrees.

Most road cars will run in the mid 90's which is past the point where the thermostat is fully open.
Any modification that can pull that temperature back toward the lower mark is beneficial - not below the thermostat opening temperature but closer to it. That is the purpose of this cooling panel.

Here is an example of a well built rally car directing air through the radiator to good effect. (Sorry picture's not great)


Shot with FinePix S304 at 2007-08-01

[Ae92typeX]

I was thinking about this more today. One of my last cars had a 80 degrees C thermostat and ran dead on 180 Fahrenheight under all regular driving conditions including fanging it around. thats (according to computer) 82.22*C
not much in it.

Perhaps in this example I would have expected the radiator cooling capacity to have been similar to this, but it is not.

[soopachargen]

the shroud simply directs more air through the radiator rather than the air taking the path of least resistance around it, more air through the radiator lets the radiator do its job better.

[TWSTD]

exactly - so the only time it will ever make ANY difference is when the radiator cannot perform its job sufficiently. Lets just all accept that they are a costmetic item - not that theres anything wring with that - they certainly do a good job of sprucing up ones engine bay. Ive considered buying one of the flash US made carbon items we sell even....

[postfach]

exactly - so the only time it will ever make ANY difference is when the radiator cannot perform its job sufficiently. Lets just all accept that they are a costmetic item - not that theres anything wring with that - they certainly do a good job of sprucing up ones engine bay. Ive considered buying one of the flash US made carbon items we sell even....

I wouldn't say they are just a cosmetic item, they do serve a purpose and no doubt they function as they are designed to, even if they don't show any improvement on the factory gauges, it doesn't mean an improvement hasn't happened, small differences in performance often don't show up on the factory instruments because they aren't capable of "seeing" such a small change.

Factory sensors generally don't have a very high resolution so only indicate greater changes, like narrow band 02 sensors which only really "know" stoich, lean, and rich, and can't tell much difference in between (if you don't believe me try putting an air fuel ratio gauge on a factory car, it won't really work as accurately as intended)

[RomanV]

The relevance of the TRD thermostat is, in fact their purpose. A TRD thermostat, which opens 10 degrees earlier than a standard item, is not there to remedy problems with overheating. It's purpose is to lower the operating temperature to achieve more power.

There is an optimum temperature for an engine to maintain to achieve best power. Others may be more expert in this but my understanding is that this is about 70 degrees.

If this is true, then why do 'normal' thermostats keep the engine at a higher temperature? Surely there must be a downside too, otherwise all thermostats would open earlier?

[matt dunn]

If this is true, then why do 'normal' thermostats keep the engine at a higher temperature? Surely there must be a downside too, otherwise all thermostats would open earlier?

I would guess that although more power may be produced at lower temp,
so would increased wear, which for a road car is not what you want when you have to supply them with a 3 year 100,000km warranty.

[MikeMan]

The relevance of the TRD thermostat is, in fact their purpose. A TRD thermostat, which opens 10 degrees earlier than a standard item, is not there to remedy problems with overheating. It's purpose is to lower the operating temperature to achieve more power.

There is an optimum temperature for an engine to maintain to achieve best power. Others may be more expert in this but my understanding is that this is about 70 degrees.

If this is true, then why do 'normal' thermostats keep the engine at a higher temperature? Surely there must be a downside too, otherwise all thermostats would open earlier?

Probably emmisions

[TRD Man]

If this is true, then why do 'normal' thermostats keep the engine at a higher temperature? Surely there must be a downside too, otherwise all thermostats would open earlier?

Yes there are downsides to running cooler. To quote David Vizard - it's got something to do with oil getting hot enough to do it's stuff and even something as simple as the efficiency of the heater.

[lee90]

A few weeks ago I got one of these for my 01 RunX(Corolla) from Mac at http://41.co.nz.



I'll freely admit that I got it mostly for looks and didn't think that it would make a hell of a lot of difference.

However, when driving along around town it keeps the car a bar and a half lower on the temp gauge, and when fanging the car it keeps it at normal, a full three bars below where it used to sit when given a thrashing.

I intend on getting actual readings of what the temps are, but for the moment I'm certainly pleased with my relatively cheap purchase, and the better cooling that it has given.

Thank you Mac from 41 and Toyspeed for the discount.

where can you get C-One cooling panel for ae111?

[Bling]

where can you get C-One cooling panel for ae111?

you taking the piss?

hes given you the link to the site he bought it from.......and after a 30 second check, they sell ae111

[lee90]

ohh i found it $170 nice price dus it really work though?

[Ae92typeX]

ohh i found it $170 nice price dus it really work though?

read above.
I dont think is is an argument it can increase the cooling capability of the vehicle. If you will notice that or not 'could' depend on the vehicles current running temp and cooling capabilities.

[gmacrae]

sounds like your cooling system was messed up to begin with - no (healthy) toyota i've ever driven has moved the guage from normal operating temp when giving it some stick - something aint right there

[barryogen]

sounds like your cooling system was messed up to begin with - no (healthy) toyota i've ever driven has moved the guage from normal operating temp when giving it some stick - something aint right there

The grill on it has a fairly tight mesh, maybe it doesn't let as much through as it should?


The standard corolla has a lot more direct path for air to go through the grill with just louver type things.

[2jayzgte]

While where on the subject of thermostats I personally use the TRD Thermostat on my Supra and have found the water temp to run alot lower when on the open road doing 100 kph plus as much 10-15 % lower than the factory thermostat.As for a cooling plate well my take on that its just acting as another piece of cowling to trap the air so there will be some sought of benefit but how much well who know's.

[Caveman]

I could be way off track here, but I don't think that the point on the gauge that indicates "normal" operating temperature is the same point at which the thermostat opens....

A thermostat is a mechanical thing, it operates in a set temperature range, if the water passing the thermostat is cooler after installing the panel, then the thermostat will just open less... (it's not broken!)

Yes, the water will warm up more if the thermostat is closed, so yes, it will open up more again and the water will cool down again. The normal operating temperature is an EQUILIBRIUM. One side of the equation has been changed (the panel installed) THE EQUILIBRIUM MOVES!

The temperature gauge indicates the temperature of the water in the cooling system (OH MY GOD!!) not the operation of the thermostat.

In short, the panel is working, the thermostat is working. No problem.

Can you please explain how the equilibrium changes?

The way I see it the thermostat is a closed loop control system regulated by water temperature only. If the thermostat could be modeled as a proportional controller I could understand your logic however I believe the thermostat behaves differently. It will start to open close to the desired temperature level.

[frost]

^^im not sure if im reading your post right but i always see the cooling system as being controlled by the thermostat, because it alone is the sole controller of how much water will be cooled and heated, to the desired temp,

if you change to a TRD thermo then the controlled temp will be set by the lower thermo complete opening temp.

[Ae92typeX]

I agree with the above two...unless you have a poked or ineficent radiator, then the therm will have less/little control on the operating temp & you would rely on the fan more (again, only really with a really ineficent or poked radiator)
I cant see the equilibrium being changed in any way to make it colder in a system with a properly working radiator.