Calling all 2JZ experts.. and efi experts in general!!

[larryex]

Hi there guys.. looking for some advice from Toyota gurus. I have just retro-fitted a 2JZ-GE from a JZS147 Arsisto into my mid 90s Hiace van. Anyways after almost a year of working on it and fabricating etc its now a runner, with the auto trans etc. Now it all runs and does most things ok... except.. its running super super rich, like choking rich. So I have tried 3 different Coolant Temp Sensors to no avail; tried running it without the air filter; checked the readings from the MAP sensor, ATS sensor and every other bloody sensor it has against the factory manual, and it all seems normal. Yes it has new plugs etc and yes the timing is spot on blah blah so I am starting to look toward the ECU, the injectors themselves, or the fuel pressure reg, which seems to be working ok. It seems ok at idle but the minute you lift it just above idle it bags out very badly and starts pouring black smoke out. I have run out of ideas, is there someone who can offer good advice on this one?? Cheers, Chris

[YeMs]

tried putting a fuel pressure gauge on ?

[neo]

Does it do it from cold? Tried running without the oxy sensor being plugged in / thus back to the factory maps?

[strx7]

firstly did everything you use in the conversion come from the same thing thing or did you mix and match parts (injectors, ecu, all associated EFI parts, loom etc etc)

if you did then.....

confirm fuel pressure is right - check that you dont have over 45psi at idle.

[BlakeNZ]

I agree. check out the o2 sensor and wiring.( mine had a wiring fault with 2 wires touching inside) secondly look at the tps as a suspect. thirdly,check all your earthing points- a poor earth can send cause dumb signals to get sent to ECU, without showing up as a fault.( i doubt it very much, but by some chance do you have the 2jzgte injectors installed ? nah, forget that idea- it would idle poorly on start up.)

[larryex]

Thank you all for your kind advice so far..! yes all the bits are from the same jsz147, that is the motor, box , loom and ecu. I have tried running with and without the two oxy sensors plugged in , and yes the fault exists from stone cold right though to NOT. Ill plumb a guage in tomorrow, its really something I should have done earlier, although i have tried clamping off the fuel line to reduce pressure to see what happened but still the same. The pump is a factory in tank pump from a 2RZ-E van, i figured the 2.4 pump should be ok with a 2JZ-GE. The tps seems a good tip as its ony when you touch the gas and lift it off idle it turns bad, and if you move the tps to one extreme it dies altogether. It may be worth pulling it off and having a look at it, although the readings are good from closed to open throttle. Cheers!!

[Grrrrrrr!]

. Yes it has new plugs etc and yes the timing is spot on blah blah so I am starting to look toward the ECU, the injectors themselves, or the fuel pressure reg, which seems to be working ok. It seems ok at idle but the minute you lift it just above idle it bags out very badly and starts pouring black smoke out. I have run out of ideas, is there someone who can offer good advice on this one?? Cheers, Chris

You haven't mentioned what the check engine light is doing if anything?
Most major faults should show up in basic diagnostic codes.

As for the other things you have mentioned..

ECU: Yep, you could have toasted something if your wiring loom is a bit bodge.
Test your ECU in someone elses' car if you can (dont put theirs in yours cos if your wiring is dodgy you might fry it.)

Injectors: If they are the original ones from the donor car you can pretty much eliminate them.. if they were clogged it would be lean, not rich on startup.
( I assume you have disconnected the battery to clear the learned data at some point)

Fuel pressure regulator: again, if its the standard one and has no visible damage its pretty unlikely to have gone bad while you were swapping the engine over.
Check the vacuum line to it is clear (just blow/suck thru it) and make sure its going to the correct manifold port. The syringe trick can be used to check this too.
Make sure the fuel return line isn't blocked (if its iding okay then its probably fine).

Fuel pump: The 2rz-e pump should certainly be okay at idle/low load.. maybe not at full load but you can worry about that after you get it running okay.

Oxy sensors: at stone cold they wont be operating so only a short in the wiring would cause the computer to do strange things.
Some reach operating temp in under 20secs so you only have a short amount of time to eliminate this.

MAP sensor: one trick for testing these is to grab a large syringe from the local chemists and jam it in the end of the map sensor line (needs to be the right side to seal tight)
then use it to create a decent vacuum by pulling on the syringe while watching the output voltage on the multimeter.
You can also use the syringe to create positive pressure on boosted vehicles. Double check the vacuum line is going to the correct side of the throttle body.

Trans plugs etc: The auto trans shouldn't affect the fuelling of the motor, so unless something is shorted out causing problems inside the ECU this is unlikely to be the problem.

Note: all the above assumes that you ran the motor while it was in the Aristo and all was good then.
If you didn't run it in the Aristo then who knows what might have been wrong with it in the first place.

Have you checked for vacuum leaks?

How soon after you touch the throttle does it bog? instantly or does it take a second to go bad?

Does the fault still appear if you open the throttle very slowly? or only if you blip the throttle?

[YeMs]

vacuum leaks would give a high idle, if it idles fine i wouldnt suspect it. how ever if u get sum engine start and spray it around the manifold area a leak will show up by the engine tone/idle changing wen it sucks in sum engine start. just to completely rule out a vacuum leak i would do it.

i would still be interested to get the fuel pressure at idle etc, could have a blockage further down the line, or the tank could be pressurising not allowing correct retun flow thus upping the fuel pressure.

[gepsk8]

Coolant Temp Sensors new?
there cheap from ripco $35
try swaping map sensor and valcum line it may have got damaged
have seen 1 faulty fuel reg on blacktop 4age before worth swaping or if u can get ur hand on flow and fuel pressure tester then check that.

[larryex]

Hey guys thanks for all your tips. All the wiring and install was done by an 'A" grade mechanic so 'should' be ok (me, lol). There are no vacuum leaks, in fact if you give it a leak on purpose it actually helps of course. I will throw the pressure guage on it tomorrow and see what it is reading and will run some more earth leads from the body and block to the battery to see what will happen. I have not got another MAP or TPS to try out although the readings appear good. No fault codes can be brought up as i have not wired the second diagnostic plug up, only the one on the engine so although the check engine light is showing I will have to do more wiring mods to be able to extract the codes. Ill post up the results of the fuel pressure test tomorrow. Tank does not appear to be pressurising as removing the cap does not let out a 'burp', although I will try running the return into a fuel can to see what happens. Ta!

[larryex]

Hi again, this is the latest. It seems to be in fail-safe or limp home mode. The timing is static at ten degrees and does not alter at all as you bring up the revs or load it. the check engine light comes on pretty soon after you start to crank, and as i said before its running rich as, so it must be sitting on a safe timing and fixed injector pulse witdh setting. If you remove the dizzy and spin it slowly the check engine light comes up after about 3/4 of a turn. Bridging the terminals does not induce any fault codes at all. starting to wonder if its ecu or dizzy? have tried another ignitor but to no avail. Help!!

[strx7]

you need to work out WHY the check engine light comes on.

if you dont know how to diagnose it yourself, you're best to take it to an auto sparky otherwise you just waste your time and money replacing bits which have nothing wrong with them. Surely you could get it to spit an error code of some description.

[sergei]

you need to work out WHY the check engine light comes on.

if you dont know how to diagnose it yourself, you're best to take it to an auto sparky otherwise you just waste your time and money replacing bits which have nothing wrong with them. Surely you could get it to spit an error code of some description.

But if you cannot get code out even if you ground TE pin at ECU, it means that most likely ECU is toast.

[larryex]

you need to work out WHY the check engine light comes on.

if you dont know how to diagnose it yourself, you're best to take it to an auto sparky otherwise you just waste your time and money replacing bits which have nothing wrong with them. Surely you could get it to spit an error code of some description.

Yes thats right, I am trying to work that one out. If I knew how to diagnose it myself, i would not be asking on here would I??? And no, it wont spit out any codes even when bridging TE1 and E1 at the ecu. Not wasting anytime and money either, just seeking advice. I am an A grade mechanic with 15 years exp thats why its even more frustrating, although very little toyota knowledge hence asking here.

[larryex]

you need to work out WHY the check engine light comes on.

if you dont know how to diagnose it yourself, you're best to take it to an auto sparky otherwise you just waste your time and money replacing bits which have nothing wrong with them. Surely you could get it to spit an error code of some description.

Yes thats right, I am trying to work that one out. If I knew how to diagnose it myself, i would not be asking on here would I??? And no, it wont spit out any codes even when bridging TE1 and E1 at the ecu. Not wasting any time and money either, just seeking advice. I am an A grade mechanic with 15 years exp thats why its even more frustrating, although very little toyota knowledge hence asking here.

[strx7]

you need to work out WHY the check engine light comes on.

if you dont know how to diagnose it yourself, you're best to take it to an auto sparky otherwise you just waste your time and money replacing bits which have nothing wrong with them. Surely you could get it to spit an error code of some description.

Yes thats right, I am trying to work that one out. If I knew how to diagnose it myself, i would not be asking on here would I??? And no, it wont spit out any codes even when bridging TE1 and E1 at the ecu. Not wasting any time and money either, just seeking advice. I am an A grade mechanic with 15 years exp thats why its even more frustrating, although very little toyota knowledge hence asking here.

I'm not saying you are one of the culprits but I deal with mechanics all day long, and a lot of them love the old, "i'd like a dizzy, an ignitior, a computer, coil leads etc etc etc, and i'll just return what I dont need" and its a pain in the butt and its a waste of my time and my staff's time.

[larryex]

Granted, and i totally agree with you having been round long enough. Thats why i asking here in case some toyota guru has seen it before. The factory manual says if there is a ecu program fault it will lock the timing at 10 degrees regardless of engine speed, and fix the pulse with from the tps and light the check light, which it seems exactly what mine has done. The motor, ecu, and loom came from a third party, and its all leading to a crook ecu.

[fivebob]

How, and when did you check the ECU for fault codes?

Some things are transient and will not appear when you bridge the terminals after the engine has been shut down. In which case you should bridge the check terminals while the engine is still running. Actually that's the correct way to do it in any case, but some people think you have to bridge the terminals then turn the ignition on.

[larryex]

been there done that, it wont put out any codes no matter which way you do it!! Done it hundreds of times over the years on Toyotas so well aware of the correct procedure. If I could get some codes from the f....n thing I would prob not be here lol

[fivebob]

Odd, check engine light should give a code, even a transient one, and certainly one that would cause it to go into limp mode

Does the check engine light flash at all when you connect the terminals?

The only other thing that causes static timing is when the diagnostic terminals are bridged, but that would cause the CEL to flash constantly