200kw out of a black top

[Bling]

Orrrrr you could buy a gtz as suggested above with 4ag't'e, swap the blacktop into it and turbo motor into the ae111 then sell off the gtz.

Reinventing the wheel is not a cheap option

[tim_blair]

im aware that the silver top pistons are different from the gze ones i just forgot to put a commar between silvertop and gze lol

id rather keep the car and the engine and get the rods and pistons replaced

as i much prefur the ae111

so ill go for the silvertop rods and gze pistons

how about ecus?
ive seen safc2s for sale on trademe for realy cheap like 300-400 would 1 of these be suitable? coz they are a piggy back type right? or should i go for a whole replacement item? in which case how much im i gona be paying?

if my supercharger doesnt work out ill go for a t3t4 as they are common as fu@k

[Crampy]

no, do not use a SAFC. They're only god for fine tuning and trimming.
Get a second hand link, they're pretty cheap.

T3/T4s are common, but that's not really a good thing. There are some oddgey brand ones around.

I like the TDO5H because it's a physically smaller turbo as well, so you don't run into the clearance issues you can have with T3 types turbos.
They have more than enough huff to pump out 200kw too.


your supercharger sounds cool. got any pics of it?

[tim_blair]

tdo5h you reckon, ill have a look into it but i was gona go with the t3t4 coz there so commom and cheap and all the nice stainless manifolds on trademe and t3 flanged

speaking of cheap what flange type does a tdo5h have?

[tim_blair]

i have a few pics of my charger but how do i post them?

[Crampy]

TDO5H has a mitsi four bolt flange, same as the smaller TD04l.

Watch out for those cheap stainless manifolds, they're cheap for a reason. They can be prone to cracking. Steam pipe is the way to go.

Flanges are easy to chop off and get another one welded on too.

As for posting pictures on here. Set up a photobucket account and host them on there, or you can email them to me and I'll host them for you. robz_mr2@hotmail.com.

[Stott69]

i have a few pics of my charger but how do i post them?

theres a post in FAQs explaining how. easy as, even i figered it out from there, n im a dumb ass

[escortman]

yeh go td05, ae111 with blacktop head ze bottom and td05 had over 200kws its the silver 1 on trademe, im running a td05 20g rated for similar power to the t3t4s cept comes on way sooner a lot more driveable

[~SlideWays~]

yeah would have to be a fair bit more than 200kw to break traction in 3rd, I could get my trueno to let go when cornering if i kicked the clutch in dry but theres no way itll spin through 3rd from 2nd or spin in 3rd when coming on boost.

in the wet is a differant story though

Don't forget the gear ratio differences, the gtz box's have looooooooooooong gears so would be much harder to spin 3rd vs's the close ratio and shorter gears of a b18c gbox .

Also final drive ratio, GTZ gbox would be around 3.8:1 ish vs that integra (guessing) might be around 4.5:1?

[~SlideWays~]

yeh go td05, ae111 with blacktop head ze bottom and td05 had over 200kws its the silver 1 on trademe, im running a td05 20g rated for similar power to the t3t4s cept comes on way sooner a lot more driveable

My t3/04e is amazingly responsive for the size the the thing. Spool and responsiveness will come down to a lot of things like compression ratio, ign timing, fueling, manifold design, intercooler size, plumbing etc etc

My old 4agte with 8:1 pistons, bigport head (with TVIS running thru Link+) and GT28RS (ball bearing) only spooled 500rpm earlier than the new setup of 8.9:1, smallport head, new tune and T3/04e (plain bearing).

Also I find that a boost plot from the dyno isn't a good indication on what it'll actually be like to drive. I know of a 4agte with t3/4 that struggled to get boost in 1st and would drop off boost changing up to 2nd vs mine where it spools in 1st really easy and a lazy change up will still be on boost.

[escortman]

yeh go td05, ae111 with blacktop head ze bottom and td05 had over 200kws its the silver 1 on trademe, im running a td05 20g rated for similar power to the t3t4s cept comes on way sooner a lot more driveable

My t3/04e is amazingly responsive for the size the the thing. Spool and responsiveness will come down to a lot of things like compression ratio, ign timing, fueling, manifold design, intercooler size, plumbing etc etc

My old 4agte with 8:1 pistons, bigport head (with TVIS running thru Link+) and GT28RS (ball bearing) only spooled 500rpm earlier than the new setup of 8.9:1, smallport head, new tune and T3/04e (plain bearing).

Also I find that a boost plot from the dyno isn't a good indication on what it'll actually be like to drive. I know of a 4agte with t3/4 that struggled to get boost in 1st and would drop off boost changing up to 2nd vs mine where it spools in 1st really easy and a lazy change up will still be on boost.

o yeh i realise there are many factors affecting spool time etc but the size of a turbo would play a larger role i would have thought, i can only put that 13.8 down to a good powerband, that was on stock ze ecu 8.6:1 comp aries pistons, td05 16g bigport head without tvis hooked up major boost leaks 1st and 2nd was 10psi 3 and 4th closer to 5psi

[4agtepwr]

A stock ze bottom end will do 200kw no worries. Mines pretty much stock apart from arp fastners and a few other tricks but sees 9000rpm and 20 pound pretty often.
Depends what you want I guess, Mines a bit of a lag monster but I did build it with a specific power firgure in mind and didnt want to go the 7a route, And 4ages sound like motorbikes when you start to really rev them:)
But for the money one of bazz's 7a bottom ends would be hard to beat to be fair

[Crampy]

I've got the pics of the supercharger Tim has made. It looks pretty cool.
Here's the details:

"hi this is the supercharger i made
Its made from a vf10 turbo and a startermotor planetry gearbox out of a pt10 nissan maxima
I turned up the housing for the gearbox from a solid piece of round alloy about 75x90mm
I turned the gearbox around so that it overdrives it (1:5) ratio
put a ball bearing in the housing at the pulley end
mounted an alternator pulley on the input shaft
I cut the center part of the turbo in half (the part with the oil and coolant) I turned it down so that it would fit into the housing and turned out a section 4 a bearing to mount in, for the output shaft
turned the startermotor shaft (output) down with a shoulder in it so it would fit the bearing and the compressor wheel
put an oil feed and oil drain into the housing and an o ring into the housing to seal it to the turbo center
and finaly pushed the turbo center into the housing.

hope you like it.
Tim"

[xsspeed]

Mean procharger!

Good effort I say, any idea yet how well it spools etc?

[~SlideWays~]

Mean procharger!

Good effort I say, any idea yet how well it spools etc?

Pretty cool idea, would it need balancing at all?

Re: spool - i don't think you can really call it "spool" since it'll be directly driven from the crank. At a guess it'd make more boost with more engine revs. Like 2psi at 2000rpm then build up to 6psi at 7000rpm...or something like that.

[xsspeed]

Hmm true re spool, what I was trying to ask is pretty much what you asked re balancing, I wanted to know how well it spun at high rpm (ie does it sh\t itself)

I did some reading into prochargers/centrifugal super chargers a while back, but cant remember, do they (off the shelf ones anyway) continue to make boost right through the rpm range. (Ie no clutch)?

[Bazda]

Are you going to beable to spin the compressor wheel at a high enough RPM to produce good boost....typically around 80,000rpm-100,000rpm..

[tim_blair]

hey thanks heaps for posting the pics of my charger

ur right it will be on full time so itl make low boost at low rpm and higher boost at higher rpm

i did some basic balancing to the output shaft and compressor wheel before i assembled it so it should be ok how ever at 100000+ rpm even the smallest amount could kill it

as far as the actual opperating speed goes i figured this:
pulley ratio 1:2.8 (2.8x engine speed)
charger gearbox ratio 1:5 (5x input speed)
2.8x5=14
so the compressor wheel will be spinning at 14 times engine rpm.
idle 1000 rpm=14000 rpm at compressor
redline 8000 rpm=112000 rpm at compressor

if the opperating speed of a vf10 turbo is 100000rpm making 8psi then my charger should make 9-10 psi at redline however this is an estimate
and as the rpm increases the engine sucks more air so maybe the engine will get 5psi constatly i duno that part i will have to find out

but there is always the chance that the bearings will seize or the shaft is off balance or the gears will strip any number of things could go wrong
i give it a 30% chance of actually working.

[flygt4]

do some trials by dyno etc then when it works well enough mass produce it and sell on trademe

[tim_blair]

hey crampy you asked how much it cost and how long it took

turbo 80
startermotor 60
pulley 30
bearings 40
labour 130+ hours. over 6 months coz it was a little bit here a little bit there

so it was obviously a cheap but labour intencive thing to make

i dont know how much i would sell something like this for
maybe 700-1000
i wouldnt sell this one as it wouldnt be worth as much to any one else
but if i made more id use stronger gears and bearings as i think they would be the parts most likely to fail on this prototype, i would be able to cut the production time down alot though as now i know what im doing