water injection pump

[bzrspeed]

the inverter is going to be that much of an issue?
They assured me it was a very good product.

The main reason to use the 240v pump was price. The whole system for less then $170

what inverter would you use?

[strx7]

sorry hijack,
always wondered on the limitations of modding a diesel
strx7
How much extra boost and non-compressible liquid can you throw at an engine that relies on compression (with a little help from residual heat) before it starts detonating?

[/quote]

craploads, there is a yd25 nissan motor making 350od hp with a aftermarket turbo running approx 35psi and running twin 14gph nozzles. if you actually do the maths of how much water is going in for each cylinder stroke it is so minimal even at those levels

http://www.clubfrontier.org/forums/f47/ ... one-71347/

[Grrrrrrr!]

sorry hijack,
always wondered on the limitations of modding a diesel
strx7
How much extra boost and non-compressible liquid can you throw at an engine that relies on compression (with a little help from residual heat) before it starts detonating?

Detonation isn't a problem diesels have. Slightly simplistic description of why follows.

Petrol engines suck in air and petrol, then compress it then ignite it before TDC. If you are lucky it burns evenly and make lots of power... But because you are compressing a potentially explosive mixture it doesn't take much to make it go bang rather than a nice even burn.

Diesel engines suck in only air, compress it heaps, then squirt diesel in at/just before TDC. The diesel starts burning as soon as it is injected, and because you never have a nicely atomised mixture being compressed you can't get an explosion, only a slow burn.

[bzrspeed]

Remember also it is not water that is going into the engine. It is water vapor! That is a big difference.

[sergei]

Remember also it is not water that is going into the engine. It is water vapor! That is a big difference.

Nope, the water mist goes into engine (little droplets of liquid water), not water vapour. Otherwise water injection would be pointless. The energy required to change state (from liquid to gas) of the water is what making water injection work.

[bzrspeed]

Remember also it is not water that is going into the engine. It is water vapor! That is a big difference.

Nope, the water mist goes into engine (little droplets of liquid water), not water vapour. Otherwise water injection would be pointless. The energy required to change state (from liquid to gas) of the water is what making water injection work.

Yes I was wrong.
what you want is very fine droplets of water.

"Evaporating a litre of water requires 2257 kilo-joules of energy – and that’s a lot! If the nozzle flows 400 ml/minute, and if all the water evaporates, each minute 903 kilo-joules of energy are extracted. One joule per second is the equivalent of 1 watt, so fully evaporating 400 ml/min of water provides a cooling power of 15 kilowatts!"

[RedMist]

In an NA engine why are you attempting to reduce combustion temperatures? Water injection in something used to decrease IAT's and combat exessive combustion chamber temps. Both of which won't be an issue with an NA engine. In fact all I can see is a reduction in BMEP.

Is this another attempt to reduce horsepower? If so I believe you are on the correct path.

[bzrspeed]

I am sorry but I disagree.

I am not doing the setup for power, I am using the water injection to minimise the onset of detonation or even totally eliminate it. The twin cam engine has a few well know detonation issues and running of the high compression pistons and the fuel (96) which I will be using i am making it a safe guard.

The Twincam uses a 11.5 compression ratio engine and from what Guy Croft was emailed me and I trust his experience, the meth/water injection has been proven to be a great addition to high compression Twincam powered cars. Due to the high compression, high revving engine the benefits are the cooling of the intake charge and increase of octane

I do not think it is a big power adder but a good insurance for keeping the twincam alive above the 7250rpm level. Plus its only going to work above 3/4 throttle.

STRx-7 what ratio of meth/water do you use? i was thinking 25% to 35%. i know the maximum is 50% but dont want to go close to that.

[strx7]

i generally use 1/2 meths, 2/3 water, but do run closer to 40-45% from time to time

[sergei]

I am sorry but I disagree.

I am not doing the setup for power, I am using the water injection to minimise the onset of detonation or even totally eliminate it. The twin cam engine has a few well know detonation issues and running of the high compression pistons and the fuel (96) which I will be using i am making it a safe guard.

The Twincam uses a 11.5 compression ratio engine and from what Guy Croft was emailed me and I trust his experience, the meth/water injection has been proven to be a great addition to high compression Twincam powered cars. Due to the high compression, high revving engine the benefits are the cooling of the intake charge and increase of octane

I do not think it is a big power adder but a good insurance for keeping the twincam alive above the 7250rpm level. Plus its only going to work above 3/4 throttle.

STRx-7 what ratio of meth/water do you use? i was thinking 25% to 35%. i know the maximum is 50% but dont want to go close to that.

Pushing out 180Hp out of 2L twincam is nothing dramatic that requires water injection. It is possible to have 180Hp with 2L and 91 Octane without detonation issues.

[bzrspeed]

180hp out of a twincam 2000cc is a lot. It made 98hp when built in 1981. Generally up to 160hp is considered fast road and anything from 160-220hp is race spec.
Remember the twin cam is only 8 valve not the hyper 16v from the lancia's and post 1991 fiats.

[.:O4AGTZ:.]

Seem to be going to extreme lengths just to make the engine stay alive at relatively modest power numbers. Plus wernt you going to be using this as a daily?

Im finding it hard to justify to myself by reading this, why you are using the engine you are. If those are the sort of power figures you are looking at, surely there must be something more suited to it that doesnt need so much work for the reliability you would expect from a standard motor.

Perhaps something more modern?

[bzrspeed]

04agtz, this is the problem I have. I have purchase a whole lot of parts from overseas for the twincam engine and have design car around the engine and its intended racing future. All of this change so car has to change. But i can not afford to waste all money and start again so need to keep going.

Water injection does not cost much and is more of a novelty then form. I doubt on a day to day drive i will ever get over 3/4 throttle to activate it.

[Mr Revhead]

I am sorry but I disagree.

I am not doing the setup for power, I am using the water injection to minimise the onset of detonation or even totally eliminate it. The twin cam engine has a few well know detonation issues and running of the high compression pistons and the fuel (96) which I will be using i am making it a safe guard.

The Twincam uses a 11.5 compression ratio engine and from what Guy Croft was emailed me and I trust his experience, the meth/water injection has been proven to be a great addition to high compression Twincam powered cars. Due to the high compression, high revving engine the benefits are the cooling of the intake charge and increase of octane

I do not think it is a big power adder but a good insurance for keeping the twincam alive above the 7250rpm level. Plus its only going to work above 3/4 throttle.

STRx-7 what ratio of meth/water do you use? i was thinking 25% to 35%. i know the maximum is 50% but dont want to go close to that.

Pushing out 180Hp out of 2L twincam is nothing dramatic that requires water injection. It is possible to have 180Hp with 2L and 91 Octane without detonation issues.

That depends on the engine Sergei. For some 2l engines its a lot.

[Mr Revhead]

I am sorry but I disagree.

I am not doing the setup for power, I am using the water injection to minimise the onset of detonation or even totally eliminate it. The twin cam engine has a few well know detonation issues and running of the high compression pistons and the fuel (96) which I will be using i am making it a safe guard.

The Twincam uses a 11.5 compression ratio engine and from what Guy Croft was emailed me and I trust his experience, the meth/water injection has been proven to be a great addition to high compression Twincam powered cars. Due to the high compression, high revving engine the benefits are the cooling of the intake charge and increase of octane

I do not think it is a big power adder but a good insurance for keeping the twincam alive above the 7250rpm level. Plus its only going to work above 3/4 throttle.

STRx-7 what ratio of meth/water do you use? i was thinking 25% to 35%. i know the maximum is 50% but dont want to go close to that.

Pushing out 180Hp out of 2L twincam is nothing dramatic that requires water injection. It is possible to have 180Hp with 2L and 91 Octane without detonation issues.

That depends on the engine Sergei. For some 2l engines its a lot.

[bzrspeed]

Twincam is referring to the Fiat Dual over head cam, belt driven engines from 1953-1998.
My Twincam is from a 131 Abarth built in July 1981.

[sergei]

yeah 8v 180Hp is a bit of a problem... I assumed it was 16v...

[bzrspeed]

16v was later engines and the race only engines.
Most Twin cams were 8valve,

Guy Croft (who is legend of twincam tuning, he even wrote the book on it) said water injection is a very useful system on the twin cam engine when they get past 160hp. He recommend auqamist but the system i have built is a very close replica.