Getting more out of the 4AGE 20v BT

[VirtualWolf]

Hey guys,

Got a AE111 BZ-R, wanting to know some reasonable upgrades to do that are going to boost performance up a little. To be honest it seems to be running terribly at the moment with performance and fuel consumption, just about to get a new O2 sensor, only other thing i can think of is maybe a CAI system.

Any ideas or tips?

[Kiwi-Corolla]

First thing I'd do is a compression test. If you're down on compression then your performance will be less than ideal to begin with. Ideally you'll have 193psi or more per cylinder, however depending on how the engine has been treated you may see between 150-180psi (or less if the rings are worn). Most compression gauges aren't very accurate anyway, unless you spend decent money on a quality one, but the thing you need to worry about is that you don't get more than 14psi difference between each cylinder. If you're getting under 156psi and/or more than 14psi difference per cylinder then a rebuild or replacement would be your best bet, as any performance mods you make are still likely to yield less power than factory if your motor isn't up to scratch.

If your engine is up to scratch however, a few good mods would be an aftermarket 4-2-1 header set (especially replacing the 2-1 section that goes over the subframe as this is VERY restrictive from factory), a cold air intake or high flow panel filter in the factory airbox with better ducting, and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator (increasing the fuel pressure by as little as 4psi makes a big difference in mid-range performance).

Aside from that, unless you plan to whack some bigger cams in etc, another thing you could look at would be a lightweight flywheel and weight reduction - But, as mentioned earlier, check the health of the engine first before even bothering with performance mods or else it's essentially money down the drain.

[Shrike]

First thing I'd do is a compression test. If you're down on compression then your performance will be less than ideal to begin with. Ideally you'll have 193psi or more per cylinder, however depending on how the engine has been treated you may see between 150-180psi (or less if the rings are worn). Most compression gauges aren't very accurate anyway, unless you spend decent money on a quality one, but the thing you need to worry about is that you don't get more than 14psi difference between each cylinder. If you're getting under 156psi and/or more than 14psi difference per cylinder then a rebuild or replacement would be your best bet, as any performance mods you make are still likely to yield less power than factory if your motor isn't up to scratch.

If your engine is up to scratch however, a few good mods would be an aftermarket 4-2-1 header set (especially replacing the 2-1 section that goes over the subframe as this is VERY restrictive from factory), a cold air intake or high flow panel filter in the factory airbox with better ducting, and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator (increasing the fuel pressure by as little as 4psi makes a big difference in mid-range performance).

Aside from that, unless you plan to whack some bigger cams in etc, another thing you could look at would be a lightweight flywheel and weight reduction - But, as mentioned earlier, check the health of the engine first before even bothering with performance mods or else it's essentially money down the drain.

Think from memory the guys at shred worked out you gain some more torque and don't lose and kw atw with 2 degrees of retarded timing (would need dyno to confirm)

2.25" exhaust on top of the headers

Air fuel mixer as they tend to run rich (again will help if its on the dyno)

Make sure the VVT is working as that will cause issues, also good oil will help it rev easier

I ran a catch can on mine but its not always needed

Handling mods would be money better spent tbh, good tires and the smallest lightest rims that fit over the brakes

New bushes etc

[dnalunchie]

A tuner friend of mine said the 20v's gain between 8-10 hp with a properly tuned aftermarket ecu and maybe another 10-12hp with a well made intake,exhaust and headers. With that you should be looking at around 110kw atw.

Doesn't sound like much but my own car with the above (minus the headers) made 106kw atw and it felt like a totally different car to stock.

[jacobrjett]

my advice: (having owned a BZR)

make sure it has good compression. if a rebuild is in order replace with silvertop conrods..

I would definately recommend a quality oil pressure gauge as one of the first things you get and change the oil/fuel/air filters and service it etc. before you start going for power

get a 2 1/4" exhaust (mandrel bent) from the headers back made/bent up, no cat, at least one resonator, quality muffler (quality aftermarket ones are expensive and rare on trademe)

get a proper cold air intake, and then take the head off and flywheel off for machining. Put head back on with a TRD head gasket.

Better flow, better response and more compression will allow the motor to make more power without being messed up by the factory ECU maps. None of this will cost too much either. (Assuming you can pick up a spanner)

At this point you can push the timing forward to get more power. be careful doing this, as without programmable maps you are limited as I believe it pushes the entire map forward which means youl never get the most out of it and it might detonate at certain revs.

This is as much as I would personally take the car with the engine. I would consider money better spent at this point on springs, shocks, brake pads, tyres, short shift kit, polyurethane bushings/engine mounts, sway bars, braided brake lines, other crap like that. Because unfortunately the next stage for power will end up being hugely expensive and involve aftermarket wiring and ECU, and a full head rebuild with cams, turbo or both, going forged etc. As you know it just goes from there.

[touge_ae101]

a blacktop without cams won't make more than 105kw atw. there are big gains to be made with some big cams and good compression.

really depends what extent you want to go to.. Engine in ae82 is still completely standard with ST rods, standard pistons, uprated valve springs and a big cam. it's a pretty simple recipe and makes 134kw atw..

Definitely a Link and a good tune makes a huge difference to a standard engine but look to replace the valve springs and rods with ST ones if you're planning on making more than 105kw.. in saying that though I never had a blacktop throw a rod out the side of a block and I drove them relatively hard.

[dnalunchie]

a blacktop without cams won't make more than 105kw atw. there are big gains to be made with some big cams and good compression.

really depends what extent you want to go to.. Engine in ae82 is still completely standard with ST rods, standard pistons, uprated valve springs and a big cam. it's a pretty simple recipe and makes 134kw atw..

Definitely a Link and a good tune makes a huge difference to a standard engine but look to replace the valve springs and rods with ST ones if you're planning on making more than 105kw.. in saying that though I never had a blacktop throw a rod out the side of a block and I drove them relatively hard.

Not sure about that, my silvertop with a CAI, Blacktop cams, an exhaust (not headers) and a G3 link made 106kw atw at Turboshops hub dyno in Dunedin

[Bling]

Congrats on the bonus 1kw Ben. Obviously dynos will read different, and every engine is different.

What is the budget for the upgrades? I'd focus on getting it running right before worrying about upgrades though. Hopefully it's an easy fix to get it sorted.

[dnalunchie]

Oh any this should be the VERY FIRST reply anyone makes for someone wanting more power from any 20v

"are you totally in love with the car?"

If the answer is no then the first thing to consider should always be

Why not buy a type R Civic/Integra?

Reason why I say this is that if you include a purchase price of say 3-4000 then there is virtually no way you will make a 20v trueno/levin quicker than a stock type R for 7-8000.

[dnalunchie]

Congrats on the bonus 1kw Ben. Obviously dynos will read different, and every engine is different.

What is the budget for the upgrades? I'd focus on getting it running right before worrying about upgrades though. Hopefully it's an easy fix to get it sorted.

Yeah haha, I think I was being a bit pedantic lol. Anyway you are right tho, unless you throw some big cams at them the 20v never push much more than 105-110 kw atw.

Still even at 106 kw atw I really loved my car, felt really quick.

[Lloyd]

They do throw rods, and they do stretch valves if you're looking for more revs.

[dnalunchie]

They do throw rods, and they do stretch valves if you're looking for more revs.

what sort of revs tho? I would think both an ST and BT would be fairly safe up to 8500 and you would be running fairly aggressive cams to need that high of a rev ceiling I would think

[jacobrjett]

I back lunchies post 100% in saying you wouldnt regret buying a Type R.

Id get a cheap one though if your just after the performance, people ask a fortune for the tidy ones as they are classic well known sports cars.

a couple cheap ones

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/honda/integra/auction-664003846.htm

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/honda/integra/auction-663977883.htm

the money spent upgrading to one of these will see you a ton more power, and the entire car is built with performance in mind, recaro seats, factory polyurethane bushings all around? better suspension brakes lighter, bigger and gruntier motor, all that crap and a lot more aftermarket availability (tons of exhausts, shocks, even cams etc. pop up on trademe and I believe plug-in reprogrammable ecus are readily available along with the Spoon ecus which are also plug-in)

[jacobrjett]

is anyone able to link "Daniels" ae111 project thread? I know its on here somewhere cant find it though dont know what is username is.

[allencr]

What"s the compression, ?

To be honest it seems to be running terribly at the moment... ...only... ...thing i can think of is maybe a CAI system. Any ideas or tips?

What does terribly mean?
What"s the compression, how many miles/kilometers, what does it look like when the oil and radiator cap are removed and do you just want bling bolt-ons & hasten its death or a more then decent DD?

[captain crescent]

Or buy this viewtopic.php?t=91327

Its a Toyota not quite the same output as a type r but fun all the same.....

[dnalunchie]

Or buy this viewtopic.php?t=91327

Its a Toyota not quite the same output as a type r but fun all the same.....

do you know what the output is? ie dynoed? also fwiw that is a NICE runx, glws

[captain crescent]

Or buy this viewtopic.php?t=91327

Its a Toyota not quite the same output as a type r but fun all the same.....

do you know what the output is? ie dynoed? also fwiw that is a NICE runx, glws

It made 116 kw atw

[dnalunchie]

Or buy this viewtopic.php?t=91327

Its a Toyota not quite the same output as a type r but fun all the same.....

do you know what the output is? ie dynoed? also fwiw that is a NICE runx, glws

It made 116 kw atw

nice, that would boggy along well, love that you fitted an LSD

[VirtualWolf]

Thanks for all your replies so far, they've all been quite helpful!

What"s the compression, ?

To be honest it seems to be running terribly at the moment... ...only... ...thing i can think of is maybe a CAI system. Any ideas or tips?

What does terribly mean?
What"s the compression, how many miles/kilometers, what does it look like when the oil and radiator cap are removed and do you just want bling bolt-ons & hasten its death or a more then decent DD?

Going to be testing the compression soon, this has been my car since 96,000km and its currently sitting at 198,000. I probably should've done something about it when I first got it, just I'm considering my options of either selling it or putting a little money into it.

The current running condition is probably due to the O2 sensor, which I just got a new one today so I'll go throw it in and reset the ECU. It seems to be running fairly rich and does bog down like the FAQ thread here so I'm considering the catch can option to see if it has any effect also once I've tested the O2 sensor.