How to determine whether your C56 has LSD?

[Kiwi-Corolla]

Is there a way to tell if a C56 gearbox is the non-LSD version or the LSD version without actually taking the box out of the car? There are no identification plates on them and the manufacturer's plate on the firewall doesn't give any distinction between the two.

When I had my 4A-GE 20v Blacktop in December last year installed I supplied my own C56 gearbox. I bought it as being a non-LSD box - However, when I picked the car up after the engine swap it didn't have the gearbox fitted that I supplied...... I didn't realise this until a couple of days later while I was cleaning the engine bay, when I noticed that the numbers written on top of the box with a marker pen from factory were different to the one I supplied (plus mine had "C56" written on it from a wrecker and was cleaner since I spent hours wiping it with degreaser).

Anyway, the workshop who did the swap and fitted a different C56 than I supplied also wreck cars, such as AE111 Levins/Truenos (including SuperStrut BZ-Rs etc), so now I'm wondering if my box is in fact equipped with a factory LSD.

I found this thread which had an interesting post in it: viewtopic.php?t=67423

"I have since put a superstrut gearbox in it which IS LSD, easiest way i found to tell is drive at 50km/h in 4th, if it sits just on or slightly over 2000rpm its LSD, if it sits well over more like 2200 - 2300 rpm its Non-LSD, the LSD boxes have a different final drive. Thats was the giveaway when i put the new box in my car, well besides the 2 black lines i left on the workshop floor"

I tested this out myself and mine sits bang on 2,000rpm at 50kph in 4th gear, so can anyone please shed some more light on this?

[Dell'Orto]

One wheel on wet grass, on on tarmac. Drop clutch, advise results

[Kiwi-Corolla]

One wheel on wet grass, on on tarmac. Drop clutch, advise results

And risk getting one side of my car dirty?!? That's crazy talk!

[Dell'Orto]

But yes, if its in the car you're only gonna be able to tell from ratios or doing a skid. Sounds like it might be LSD then, can't be disappointed with that!

[85AW20v]

From what I recall from reading posts on here, if you pull an axle out and look into the gearbox, a non-LSD diff will have a shaft through the hole that the 2 pinions are located on whereas an LSD doesn't have any obstruction at all and you should be able to see the end of the halfshaft across the back of the motor.

In this thread http://forums.toyspeed.org.nz/viewtopic.php?t=70368 you can see the pinion carrier with the hole in the centre.

[CAMB01]

The 'E' series gearboxes from GTZ Trueno's and levin's that are LSD have a bar through the middle, where as the NON-LSD boxes don't have a bar.
Not sure if its the same with the 'C' series boxes?

[Kiwi-Corolla]

:lol:

But yes, if its in the car you're only gonna be able to tell from ratios or doing a skid. Sounds like it might be LSD then, can't be disappointed with that!

That is true. Maybe I can have a hose and a bucket of soapy water on standby . I read a few minutes ago that a good way to tell is by jacking up one side of the car and trying to rotate the wheel by hand when it's in neutral. I tried this at the start of the year but both wheels were off the ground and didn't turn at the same time when rotated by hand, which apparently doesn't mean shit in the case of the C56

From what I recall from reading posts on here, if you pull an axle out and look into the gearbox, a non-LSD diff will have a shaft through the hole that the 2 pinions are located on whereas an LSD doesn't have any obstruction at all and you should be able to see the end of the halfshaft across the back of the motor.

In this thread http://forums.toyspeed.org.nz/viewtopic.php?t=70368 you can see the pinion carrier with the hole in the centre.

Yeah that's how I determined if the original C56 box I bought from the wrecker was non-LSD. Didn't have that luxury with the engine swap unfortunately as I thought the gearbox I supplied was going in, but it turned out to be a different box entirely. Hoping to find a way to tell the difference between the two without pulling it out of the car as I don't want to go to those sort of extremes if it's just a case of pulling a burnout on some wet grass as mentioned above

[85AW20v]

Just need to pull the short driveshaft - you'll be able to see into the diff with it out.

[Kiwi-Corolla]

Just need to pull the short driveshaft - you'll be able to see into the diff with it out.

Ideally I'm looking for a way to find the answer without removing anything, because if I can find definitive proof that it's an LSD box based on the characteristics of the gearbox (such as sitting at 2,000rpm in 4th gear at 50kph, or being difficult to turn the wheel/tyre by hand when one corner is off the ground) it would be very handy for others, not just here in New Zealand but all over the world as there doesn't seem to be a straight answer out there.

Need someone who knows 100% that they have a non-LSD C56 in their car to test if their tacho shows that they're doing considerably more than 2,000rpm in 4th gear at 50kph. If not then we can count that out as being a potential way to tell between the two.

[Lloyd]

Stop f***ing around and just do a skid already

[Grrrrrrr!]

Is there a way to tell if a C56 gearbox is the non-LSD version or the LSD version without actually taking the box out of the car? There are no identification plates on them and the manufacturer's plate on the firewall doesn't give any distinction between the two.

Yeah, the chassis tag does tell the difference, just that they are so many conflicting stories nobody seems to be sure which is which. Wiki page says c56-08A = open , 08B = LSD. YMMV etc.

"I have since put a superstrut gearbox in it which IS LSD, easiest way i found to tell is drive at 50km/h in 4th, if it sits just on or slightly over 2000rpm its LSD, if it sits well over more like 2200 - 2300 rpm its Non-LSD, the LSD boxes have a different final drive. Thats was the giveaway when i put the new box in my car, well besides the 2 black lines i left on the workshop floor"

I tested this out myself and mine sits bang on 2,000rpm at 50kph in 4th gear, so can anyone please shed some more light on this?

LSD or non LSD shouldn't change the gearing, both bolt into same crown wheel usually, sounds more like different ratio sender unit in gearbox causing speedo to be out. 2200+ rpm @50 in 4th on a c56 would mean a 4.8ish final drive. Not likely IMO.

2000rpm in 4th on a c56 is 48kph on 205/50/15s if the data on the wiki page is correct. (factory size for a SS ae101 IIRC.)

[iOnic]

Ask the person that put it in.

[Kiwi-Corolla]

Yeah, the chassis tag does tell the difference, just that they are so many conflicting stories nobody seems to be sure which is which. Wiki page says c56-08A = open , 08B = LSD. YMMV etc.

Now that you mention it I did read that, however I'm still straight out of luck since my chassis tag says C50 since it originally had a 5A-FE fitted . The car the box came out of is unknown and likely to be long gone.

LSD or non LSD shouldn't change the gearing, both bolt into same crown wheel usually, sounds more like different ratio sender unit in gearbox causing speedo to be out. 2200+ rpm @50 in 4th on a c56 would mean a 4.8ish final drive. Not likely IMO.

2000rpm in 4th on a c56 is 48kph on 205/50/15s if the data on the wiki page is correct. (factory size for a SS ae101 IIRC.)

Damn, figured that approach would be a bit to easy . Looks like it's time for a skid.....

Ask the person that put it in.

I did and he tried to deny that the box was different to the one I supplied . The one I supplied was missing the shifter mechanism/boot so they probably couldn't be bothered swapping it over from another one and just grabbed a box lying on the floor out the back. Could have been out of anything. I know for a fact that the engine was out of an AE111 Levin, so I can only assume that the box was with it.

[jacobrjett]

seriously just go out and do a big $&#$% shitass fwd burnout,







then turn around and admire your fat skid marks. even take a picture to show your buddies.

[rollaholic]

just dont post it up here, or you'll face the wrath of 20 grumpy old coots

[spoonza6]

Thought you could jack up the front and if you spin one wheel and the other side reverse spins its LSD, if it goes same way or doesn't then it's not?

Or something along that line?

[wde_bdy]

Not familiar with the FWD ones or what sort of LSD they are but clutch pack RWD you jack it up and spin the wheels. They both spin the same way if LSD/locked or opposite ways if open. Can't do that for a torsen though.

Callum

[iOnic]

Go to a drag strip, do a skid and have someone tell you if both wheels were going. You'll know pretty quickly anyway, if it's a stock blacktop you'll either get smoke from one wheel or it'll struggle to maintain both wheels going/stall on a sticky surface. Don't do a short skid though, many open diffs will spin both tyres when torque is suddenly applied then one will take over (My corolla does this even though it has no LSD)

I like to check that my nissan and Mazda both still have LSDs regularly

[KinLoud]

Toyota factory C series gearboc LSD's are torsen type
You cant tell if its lsd or not by turning one wheel as the torsen acts like an open diff in low torque situations.
One wheel on grass probably wont give a good indication either.
The torsen type diff never "locks up" - it transfers torque with a ratio of between 3 to one and 5 to one
i.e. "one wheel on grass" - the wheel on the tarmac will get 3 to 5 times the torque of the wheel on grass. You will be able to accelerate but the wheel on the grass will spin.

Also - the revs in gear technique wont tell you either....
the open diff and lsd C56's have the same ratios so you will get the same revs

Jack car up from the right side
Undo stuff so you can pull the driveshaft out
Look in the hole

[Leon]

Drive car.

Will become VERY obvious when accelerating out of low speed corner if car has working LSD or not.

/shrug.